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Azure DevOps Podcast

Message from Jeffrey Palermo: Howdy.  Welcome to my podcast.  I hope it helps you ship software more quickly and more reliably. Through the topics and guests, I hope your life is made easier. Let me know what topics would be helpful for you.

Podcast sponsor: Clear Measure We are a software architecture company that empowers our client's development teams to be self-sufficient: moving fast, delivering quality, and running their systems with confidence.

Feb 19, 2024

Original signer of the Agile Manifesto, author of the Extreme Programming book series, rediscoverer of Test-Driven Development, and inspiring Keynote Speaker. I read his TDD book 20 years ago.


Topics of Discussion:

[4:06] What led Kent into extreme programming, and realizing that technical mastery alone is not enough for project success.

[6:24] The significance of extreme programming.

[9:15] The Agile Manifesto.

[10:46] The importance of taking responsibility seriously.

[14:06] What was the inspiration behind Tidy First?

[16:27] Why software design is an important skill.

[17:31] The human aspect dominates in design.

[19:40] You can make large changes in small safe steps.

[23:09] Normalizing symmetry.

[30:17] Preserving flexibility in design through empirical and reversible changes rather than rather than speculative or reactive design.

[31:51] Kent’s experimentation with the GPT phase of AI on publications.

[32:11] Rent-A-Kent to get better answers around software development.

[37:19] Advice for young programmers.


Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!


Tidy First? by Kent Beck

Test Driven Development, by Kent Beck

Extreme Programming Explained, by Kent Beck with Cynthia Andres

Implementation Patterns, by Kent Beck


Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.